bioshockfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Sinclair Spirits
Sinclairs target customers : Sinclair's removed Audio Diaries was probably removed from the game because there are no Sinclair Spirits in any of the depressed areas of Rapture (that we can see) and actually are located in the upscale areas (Fort Frolic in BS1 and Market Street in BaS). 08:07, September 11, 2014 (UTC) We dont see all of Paupers drop one of the bulkheads is blocked by debris. 18:15, September 11, 2014 (UTC) :Furthermore, the diary Sinclair Deluxe & Sinclair Spirits isn't "removed content," like the 1) GOOD GENES RANT Voxophone. It comes from the Cult of Rapture website which was created by the design company to help launch BioShock 2 and spread the game's narrative. Therefore, it's not accurate to imply that it was a mistake or an oversight. :Unownshipper (talk) 21:37, September 11, 2014 (UTC) :- :Included in-game or not, the original wiki text was based on assumption not fact. Read the audio diary carefully again - Sinclair is saying that a 'smart' operator could make money selling alcohol in the same location - convenience sells - nothing about using alcohol to force dependancy or ripping off anybody . :As far as blocked bulkheads - that doesnt count as proof (there is no sign pointing the way to a Sinclair Spirits is there ?? Certainly there were for everything else.) Anything you want to say then could be justified behind any blockage - a tear to Columbia or the Rapture Zoo or the Nazi Secret Lab might was well be behind them if you use that logic. :If anything The Limbo Room was already there to supply the booze needs of the inhabitants (no cover charge). If Sinclair did do as he suggests it would be a 'hole in the wall' low overhead store - no need for any expensive ambiance that you see in the existing Sinclair Spirits (and wouldnt use that name in such a location). : 22:07, September 11, 2014 (UTC) :- :Furthermore - what constitues 'canon' ??? What is ACTUALLY in the game? or whats shown outside the game from some concept company or whatever ? It WAS removed for whatever reason and thus ISNT part of the actual 'narrative'. :Does all the subsequently significantly changed hype gorp in all those Infinite BS trailers become 'canon' now? That actually might mean this particular tidbit (about a cut Audio Diary) belongs in the trivia section anyway. : 22:25, September 11, 2014 (UTC) :::Why would Sinclair talk about someone else. He's speaking in third person of sorts and talking about himself, he is the smart fella. He does run operations in Pauper's Drop and it is more than likely he has Sinclair Spirits spread throughout parts of Rapture and we only see a glimpse of that. To ensure that people stay in the Sinclair Deluxe, what better way to do that is to make them "invest" in alcohol and therefore depend on that alcohol so they'd spend their wages on rent and alcohol rather than bettering themselves. Replace the word smart --- with I/ Sinclair and you have Sinclair's path to money by convincing a "bankrupt fat cat" that he wouldn't be moving to the slums but temporarily staying at the "hotel overnightly" and by doing so take profit from the fat cat staying in his place from what would be the fat cat's cut of the drinking wage (Given depressed fat cat = drinking/ alcoholism). After that, Sinclair would take the rest of the fat cat's money at his drinking joint(s) (Sinclair Spirits) and/or by monopolizing the remaining "gin joints" in the Drop. Tricksteroffools (talk) 22:28, September 11, 2014 (UTC) :::: Sinclair had lots opportunities but it doesnt mean that he got all of them. You assume he's talking about himself, but he could also talk about what he would LIKE to do -- otherwise wouldnt he be crowing about what he ACTUALLY did instead of pondering what a 'smartER' fellow would do (evidence the Sinclair Deluxe audio diaries where he talks about ACTUALLY running the Sinclair Deluxe)? You assume -- thats all it is *assumption* since besides having people do piece-work who lived in his 'hotel' (they (writers)make it sound so unfair but the writers are playing on the players ignorance of how most businesses operate - Ive explained that all elsewhere) , SO what else THAT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE EVIDENCE OF *IN THE GAME* - otherwise its all assumption, NOT CANON. :::: What better way to make sure that his hotel customers DONT have their rent to pay him(Sinclair) - if they buy booze and become disabled by it? So he'd gain one customer (for a while) to lose another -- if they spent more than they could afford on booze then NO RENT. And he doesnt threaten to kill people to buy his goods or services - they do it of their own free will. If he gives them a better deal and gets more customers then thats called BUSINESS. :::: AGAIN -- the audio diary says that he might as well try to get local customers for booze sales (they would spend it elsewhere anyway wouldnt they?). And if he is more convenient, then THAT is BUSINESS (like most other businesses including the one you work for right now or your relatives or whoever). :::: Parse the text "the smart fellow shaves a dime a day off his drinking wage" '' :::: that means the smart fellow is giving the 'bankrupt fat cat'(''his) a deal (a cheaper rent) who can now afford to buy booze - the 'drinking wage'. :::: "Now, a smarter fella' might also bankroll the local gin joints, and take him for the rest." :::: then means 'the rest' is what the bankrupt fat cat saved on rent (otherwise the bankrupt fat cat would be in a more expensive place) and the 'smart fellow' could also provide a product the 'bankrupy fat cat' also wanted. :::: SO the smarter fellow would be able to ALSO sell booze to that guy and get more money 'the rest' (AND the bankrupt fat cat gets rent AND booze instead of just paying rent or being in the gutter drinking -- a better deal for the bankrupt fat cat and the businessman does what he does - make business....) :::: THAT ALL HE"S SAYING :::: Its upto the 'bankrupt fat cat' to drink booze or not (and being 'bankrupt' probably will -- NO MATTER WHAT SINCLAIR DOES. :::: 10:33, September 12, 2014 (UTC) :::: BTW you also are making negative assumptions about depression/alcohol/responsibility/dependance. Maybe you havent understood that Rapture is all about choice and responsibility ??????????? :::: 10:49, September 12, 2014 (UTC) ::But you said that the Sinclair Spirits stores were only located in the upscale areas of Rapture, that's just as much supposition. Who cares that the Spirits store isn't adjacent to the Deluxe? We never got any information on how much an Atlantic Express ticket costs. I'll bet that even if there isn't a Sinclair Spirits in Pauper's Drop (though I doubt it) there's nothing to say that a person couldn't hop a train and go to another location (they must have had some money in order to pay rent). People will take advantage of a deal when it presents itself. ::::NOT supposition -- QUOTE "there are no Sinclair Spirits in any of the depressed areas of Rapture (that we can see) and actually are located in the upscale areas" --- IT IS all that IS shown in the game -- isnt it ?? ::::"Hop a train" to go anywhere else as well - which could then be to anyone elses place -- that doesnt help the 'smart fellow' now does it ?. The audio diary is talking about "local gin joints" so dont get off the subject with your suppositions about faraway this or that. "Theres nothing to say" ... yes, THERE IS NOTHING TO SAY so it is no evidence of anything at all. ::::Sinclair does NOT say that he gives discounts to his Hotel customers on booze in the game (does he anywhere ??) OR we might as well otherwise magicly create assumptions that the 'bankrupt fat cat' would start drinking Sterno or other cheaper alternatives to any booze Sinclair would possibly sell (certainly NOT at a Sinclair Spirits as weve seen the Bar/Shop of that name IN GAME - fancy overhead costs, and there ARE plenty of other booze companies competing for the 'bankrupt fat cats' money (the business/brand list is quite long, no?. :: ::Also, let's not be naive about this. The diary is CALLED Sinclair Deluxe & Sinclair Spirits. You can tell by his tone that he's not speaking in hypotheticals, he's discussing his business practices. Nobody implied "forced dependency," (though setting up a system for a likely depressed individual to have easy access to a potentially abusive substance is reproachable) and the wording in the article doesn't either. It's not being biased to mention Sinclairs morally reprehensible practices (certainly no one in Rapture would chide him), it's just discussing what he did. ::Unownshipper (talk) 22:29, September 11, 2014 (UTC) :::::His business practices ... but what he might want to do versus what he actually achieved (you can make assumptions but theres simply no real evidence he did so). ::::: Morally reprehensible? Its called "Business". (Look around at your modern world and all the products YOU use and consume - it is the same thing) The 'bankrupt fat cat' will buy it (booze) elsewhere if he has the desire, or do YOU think he shouldn't have that choice ? Convenience to customers, underpricing competition, mass production, flexibility, giving the customer what they want -- all standard practice in todays world (and back then too). SO YOU buy such products yourself and maybe work for a company that does all those things? Toss em all out and try to survive - give up your job - ARENT you conspiring with "reprehensible practices" if thats what you consider them?? :::::Sorry its all ignorance the game writers play on - AND THIS DIARY ISNT EVEN IN THE GAME (for whatever reason). :::::Should move it to trivia. ::::: 10:33, September 12, 2014 (UTC) ::::::"Sinclair had lots opportunities but it doesnt mean that he got all of them." What the heck is that supoosed to mean? Sure, I suppose that Sinclair could have had an oppurtunity to start a plasmid business or an oxygen producing business or art gallery, but it appears he didn't. Are you implying that he doesn't own The Sinclair Deluxe or Sinclair Spirits (maybe you think there's some other guy named Sinclair running around)? The game makers have to pay the voice actors and designers for the time and work put in on the audio diaries, so I ask you why would they waste effort on making this diary and all the others that appeared on the Cult of Rapture website if they weren't important to building the narrative? ::::::I really need to ask: have you not listened to the audio diary? I'll grant you that if this was just an entry in a journal that we could only read then it very well could be misleading. But as it stands, it's a recording. One can tell by the tone, inflection, and other characteristics of his voice that HE'S TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF. ::::::You posed a question earlier which I'll now answer: "otherwise wouldnt he be crowing about what he ACTUALLY did…" NO! You think the game makes corporate characters like Ryan look bad now? Imagine if we got a diary with Sinclair putting his hands together (a la Mr. Burns from The Simpsons) and crowing as you describe. You'd be up in arms about how unrealistic and cartoonishly villainous that is. This isn't much better, but it accomplishes the same task. Sinclair plays on the stereotype of the Southern gentleman. Unlike Frank Fontaine, he'd probably consider it "beneath" him to be so boorishly self-congratulatory. By posing his musing as a hypothetical, Sinclair can bask in his cunning without debasing himself. ::::::I repeat my earlier question you ignored: The diary is CALLED Sinclair Deluxe & Sinclair Spirits, how can you deny that he's talking about his businesses? ::::::Unownshipper (talk) 22:58, September 13, 2014 (UTC) ::::::" What the heck is that supposed to mean?" It simply means that it is NOT a fact he built a booze store in Paupers Drop. So it is ONLY an assumption (on your part) that he actually did build the bar/liquorbarn/whatever to further suck the lifeblood out of the people trapped in The Sinclair Deluxe. When I only hear him musing to himself. ::::::"'why would they waste effort on making this diary and all the others" because they are doing a tarbrush job on a businessman to somehow make believe that evil capitalism (Ryans Philosophy) is the cause of all the problems and Raptures downfall. You still haven't explained how selling booze is supposed to be different for Sinclair from anyone else selling booze all over Rapture. Discount? How horrible..... You Never heard of that common practice to increase business - a thing called volume sales? ::::::"''HE'S TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF" so he is? Does he say he actually built it? (BTW, it wouldnt be like the swanky one in Fort Frolic either) He couldn't possibly ::::::be musing about another business opportunity he was considering ? Which THEN possibly he didn't later reconsideration (like too much competition (limbo room) to warrant building it, OR the renters would drink their rent and he would loose tenants, OR instead better plan was building a Sinclair Supermarket (which even now is also theoretically somewhere else -- just like we do NOT actually see ANY Sinclair Spirits (gin joint) '''in the game in Paupers Drop). A Grocery Market could sell booze AND convienent groceries to the denziens around Paupers Drop ... Sinclair would probably give a Discount on those too, and might make 10X the profits.) ::::::Again the point that your argument is based on IS a Audio Diary REMOVED from the game. ::::::"Y''ou'd be up in arms about how unrealistic and cartoonishly''" amazing how you can make up such BS to try to support your argument. Supposition on a vapor of a theoretical situation --- seriously thats very odd logic. ::::::"cunning without debasing himself" ' ... faulty' logic based on invalid assumptions on your part. I guess you totally forgot Profit_Coming,_Profit_Going. No. Sinclair NEVER EVER Crows about his business schemes.... ::::::Unfortunately most of your logic seems to be like that. ::::::So again assumptions being made which arent supposed to be on the main wiki page. :::::: 08:27, August 23, 2015 (UTC) ::::::